Of course if you accept Smith and plates, you need to reject what Moroni said about their content, which is incongruous. As in the Bible, there may be multiple accounts and sources patched together, multiple traditions brought together or providing competing details, but why does that mean there wasn't an actual event that was behind the myths? But we do have consistent relationships between cities and terrain features that can be used to construct maps that can be correlated with various degrees of success with specific ancient sites. Why can't ancient stories and myths be grounded in something historical? Later depictions on the walls of Khorsabad and Nineveh show horse-headed ships dragging cedar logs, round-hulled merchant ships, and warships with long, pointed prows. 52:47. The story of the Jaredites leaving the Tower of Babel and sailing to a new land was created for my son. for scho... ca. But it wouldn't necessarily mean that the BoM's stories are not fictional, no more than the Bible's ancientness does with its stories. It doesn't mean that there weren't stops along the way, or that, in placid weather, they didn't bring boats next to each other end open up the doors and move things around as needed. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye … By "myth," of course, I mean not a falsehood, but a narrative that conveys certain fundamental beliefs and values.Also, wouldn't it make sense for the Jaredite mariners to keep the upper ventilator port open whenever possible, and close it only when necessary? Perhaps coincidentally, the North Pacific current takes about the same time to cross from Japan to Mexico (Sorenson, p. 111). The Jaredite Barges. In Ether 2:20 it says "And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. However the shape of their ships where quite different. There are also some traditions about the ark that are not found in the Bible. Download. Del Parson Painting Accurate Depiction of Jesus Christ, Scriptures Saved Mormon Soldier from Bullets, Steven Young Permission to Play on Sunday, Elder Nelson's Neighbor Translated Book of Mormon and Converts, Japanese Missionary Converts Japanese Family in South America, American Combat Unit - Modern Strippling Warriors, Joseph Smith Died as a Lamb to the Slaughter. With you carefully worded statement, I'm assuming you do recognize that we do have interesting evidence supporting specific Old World sites mentioned in the Book of Mormon such as Bountiful in Oman, the River Laman and Valley Lemuel, and the burial place Nahom. in eight barges in approximately 1676 BC. Mormanity® is a registered US trademark. Could it have been in barges that were able to withstand intense waves? The ‘logistics’ are what make Smith’s stories absurd. Is an ancient transoceanic journey to the America's impossible? Previous Next Related Content. Though there are difficulties and debates, the progress in this area is much greater than you let on. Tomorrow! Jaredite Barges: Fact or Fiction? Some of these ancient sources, for example, claim that the shape of the deluge boat resembled a crescent moon when viewed from the profile. The Hebrew word zohar translated as the window of the ark has a meaning of light and, according to some old Jewish sources, might refer to a glowing stone used as a light source. the Doctrine and Covenants. My point was that that view is a difficult position, since Smith said Moroni gave him the plates and that Moroni said they contained an account of real historical events. A Beautiful Ukrainian Perspective: How Can I Be Us... Halvor and Hannah Ronning: Inspiring Missionaries ... Where Thieves Break Through and Steal: Your Bank A... Jaredite Barges: Clearing the Air (with the Help o... Clement of Alexandria, Temple Mysteries, and the D... Come Follow Me Week 4: Doctrine and Covenants 3–5. In the barge designed by Jerome Horowitz, we find another interesting design. There's more disingenuousness on the critical side than on the apologetic side. I don't think that is impossible. Seriously, Noah's Ark was real? Two adjoining bronze fragments of the band depict Phoenician ships from Tyre and Sidon delivering tribute, including metal ingots and what appear to be elephant tusks, to the Assyrian king. I was sure the simple instructions were wrong as I assembled the frame for the Casio electric piano I purchased for my wife for Mother's Day. This prophecy was repeated ca. MYTH: Jaredite Barge found in Lake Michigan, On January 25, 1999, some members of the Mormon community became prematurely excited when a large, wooden, boat-like object was discovered at the bottom of Lake Michigan. It’s not quite clear why Joseph chose the word “barge” to describe the vessel. Ether consists of fifteen chapters. When the sons of Mosiah left on their mission to the Lamanites, it caused a succession crisis for Mosiah (Mosiah 28:1–10). I don't quite know what to think about Jeff's owl and pussycat comments. On Twitter, follow me as: Mormanity (Religious) Nibley's analysis, however, relied in part on a questionable reading of a phrase in the Jaredite record … Jaredite Barges and Noah's Ark Revisited Thanks to Recent Findings Below is an interesting article about a 4000 year old Mesopotamian (modern day Iraq) tablet … Or am I too hopeful?As for specific New World locations, an importance difference relative to the Bible is that in the New World we don't have recorded Mesoamerican place names for well-known places that have persisted for millennia. It's myth, not history.And really, what's so hard about seeing one's scripture as mythic? Exactly When Do Saved Christians Lose Their Souls? The question of ancient long-distance sea travel has been much debated, but extensive indications have been … The record then goes on to relate how Jared and The Brother of Jared along with their family and friends left the tower of Babel and were ultimately led to the seashore where they constructed barges to come to The Land of Promise. I love you, tomorrow, you're only a day away.Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,To the last syllable of recorded time....Just you wait, Henry Higgins, just you wait! Jaredite Barges. Search the Scriptures: What did the Jaredites do while in the barges? The Book of Mormon describes the Jaredites as the descendants of Jared and his brother, who lived at the time of the Tower of Babel. Phew, the stink! Just take a look at Shades' webpage on the Book of Mormon. Painting of Jaredite barges by Robert T. Barrett. I agree with you that I would prefer the port to be open whenever possible, and maybe they were. The title refers to Ether, a Jaredite prophet who lived at the end of … Ether 6:7 says that the Jaredite barges "were tight like unto the ark of Noah." I don't think so. And interested in discussing my favorite Mormon topic: JAREDITE BARGES. The brief instructions we have point out that the ports can be opened to obtain fresh air. The Know. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. Now that we understand what moved the Jaredite barges, we need to look for a sea route where such wave and wind action could move such barges on drift voyages across the sea from the Old World to the Western Hemisphere. What results is a lengthy explanation about what a seer is and how they operate with revelatory devices I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift … Before we start, let's squash the claim that the Jaredite story was a myth in an otherwise historical Book of Mormon. Resources were dwindling and the … Found in West Virginia USA. … The … One of the exceptions is Lamanai in Belize, which has a name similar to Book of Mormon names like Lamoni and Laman. The Jaredite land northward, as described in the Book of Mormon, did not extend into the Mexico City area and probably not even into the Veracruz area. Randall Spackman notes that Hugh Nibley wrote at some length about the features of the Jaredite barges, comparing them to the description of Noah's ark as found in the Sumerian version of the Deluge story from Nippur in lower Mesopotamia, dated to before 3000 B.C. Most every writer needs a good editor, inexperienced writers especially.Nice try, Jeff, but as any number of critics have thoroughly demonstrated, the whole barge story is implausible on its face. Many Christians mock The Book of Mormon for this account because of the description of the barges themselves, the strange method of obtaining … Getting slightly more serious, the challenges in the Jaredite description of the their barges are similar to the challenges in the description of Noah's ark. Actually, Jeff, I left the Old World out of my "carefully worded statement" because the BoM refers to Old World places that are actually real but were well known to Smith from the Bible -- Jerusalem, Judah, the Red Sea -- not because I'm impressed with NHM.But you're right to say that identifiable Nephite sites might be somewhere out there in the Americas, waiting to be found someday.Somewhere....Someday....Tomorrow! That would show the four logical possibilities more clearly and perhaps help us better understand each other in these discussions. Small - (320x237px, 134.1KB) Medium - (800x591px, … Found in Honduras. Presumably a small number of animals were involved. 48:37. Why is the Church so committed to literalism as the proper way of reading its scriptures? 20 minutes? Intended humor aside, he captured the essence of apologetics and ridiculed it better than almost anybody else. [10] The story of Noah and the flood would have been relatively recent history for the Jaredites, who had departed from the, “great tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people” ( Ether 1:33 ). I mean, think about the climate. Joseph Smith Visit to Washington Episode 36. The real point is that the discontinuity between modern geography and ancient place names in the Americas is a real issue. With the barge stopped up tight like unto a dish and the Jaredites enclosed with entire "flocks and herds," how long would it take before they would "suffer for air" -- 10 minutes? Seems to me it should be the reverse. Jeff Lindsay is an LDS guy in Appleton, Wisconsin, formerly living in Shanghai. In such circumstances, one would keep the hole unstopped whenever possible rather than waiting until one "suffered for air." It would certainly give a boost to the Church! Fernando Alva Ixtlilxochitl relates that the ancestral Indians (who I believe were the Jaredites) "came to these parts [Mexico], having first crossed large lands and seas, living in caves and undergoing great hardships, until they came to this land, which they found good and fertile for their habitation. He didn’t have a clue about geography, distances, environment all of which the ‘Creator … Thus the seemingly implausible owl and pussycat actually becomes a much more reasonable horse and pussycat (actually, horse and curelom, when we examine the early roots of pussycat and some probably mistranslations leading to its current form). Dr. Hugh Nibley has shown that several of these non-biblical details and oddities are also found in the Jaredite account. Microscopic Tunnel Vision: BOM Critics and DNA. I usually focus on the ceremonial ties between the Israelites the Hopi and those found in Mesoamerica or the possible lands of the Book of Mormon. I don't think Noah's flood was global, but could the records and legends be based on a real Noah and a real ark that survived some kind of flood?Five hundred years from now, brief accounts of the pioneers crossing the plains in handcarts might seem just as implausible and mythical as the Jaredites journey, especially once we run it through a couple of foreign languages for translation. The fundamentalist-literalist idea that myth and other forms of fiction is somehow not up to these tasks is a very strange one.Similarly, proof of the BoM's antiquity would not in itself allow us to choose between (1) and (2) above. The history of the Jaredites is described in the Book of Ether, and in other records of the Jaredite It could be that Joseph Smith was telling the truth about the gold plates all along, yet was mistaken in thinking they contained history rather than fiction. If Only 10% of Anti Charges Are True . A painting by Robert T. Barrett depicting the Jaredite barges; Primary manual 1-69; Primary manual 4-53. When it came time to add the pedal assembly, the instructions called for removing two screws holding a metal bracket in place on each of the side panels, and instead of the two screws one big screw would be put in place that was supposed to hold a bracket that could connect to the beam holding the pedals. The next project will be to demonstrate how the Phoenicians could have sailed to America. The art for the Jaredite barges seems primarily based upon traditional (non-Mormon) art for Noah’s ark. Reading these verses, it seems apparent that the Lord most likely answered the steering question and that our record is just a little vague. Like the Jaredite barges, it would have been peaked on both ends. . They lived almost exclusively in North America for exactly thirty-two generations, after which time they annihilated themselves, all but two men, in a civil war, in about 600 B.C. I'm thinking of Ether 2:20:And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. Why Did Moroni Quote Malachi about Elijah’s Coming? (Nor really for many word choices in the Book of Mormon) My guess is that it was tied to the barges on the canals near where he lived. Why tie your mind in knots merely to accommodate literalism? And the Tower of Babel? Great article, Jeff. down out of heaven." But if it did happen, it would likely have been described quite differently. More than one critic has found amusement in ridiculing the Jaredite barges-or “submarines,” as some critics chide. Until these wrecks were found, the only evidence of Phoenician ships was from depictions in art:"Contemporary representations of Phoenicians in Assyrian art depict a variety of Phoenician vessels. If you’re an anti-vaxxer in general or someone who just refuses to According to the Book of Mormon, they fled across the ocean on unique barges and established an ancient civilization in America. Because they were unable to have windows, the Lord provided sixteen white stones that … Closing is only necessary when water is gushing in from waves. The number of people was small, distributed among the 8 barges. I'm back! High prow and stern boats with horse heads appear on the embossed bronze band of a gate at Balawat featured in the exhibition. There's only fraud/delusion = fiction, or truth = historicity. [1] CNN, “'Monster' in Lake Michigan is manmade, but just as mysterious” January 26, 1999, Web posted at: 2:48 p.m. EST (1948 GMT)[2] “Out of the Dust” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies: Volume - 8, Issue – 1, Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute, 1999http://farms.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=8&num=1&id=192[3] Chicago Tribune, “Answers Surface For Lake Enigma” Peter Kendall, 2/8/1999[4] Ibid, CNN, “'Monster' in Lake Michigan is manmade, but just as mysterious” January 26, 1999, Web posted at: 2:48 p.m. EST (1948 GMT), “Out of the Dust” Journal of Book of Mormon Studies: Volume - 8, Issue – 1, Provo, Utah: Maxwell Institute, 1999, Chicago Tribune, “Answers Surface For Lake Enigma” Peter Kendall, 2/8/1999, African Americans Could Not Hold the Priesthood Until 1978, Eliza Snow Pushed Down Stairs By Emma Smith.

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